What Wire at Controller for Key Switch in Throttle

General Discussion about large electric scooters and motorcycles and other things with no pedals.

detrailers   10 W

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What Wire at Controller for Key Switch in Throttle

I got a new throttle and it has a keyswitch. There is an extra blue wire on the throttle and I assume that correlates with a wire at the controller.. Wired up without it connected to anything it scooter still runs whether key on or off. Can I connect that to a wire on the controller so that when I turn off the key it immobilizes the scoot. I see there Is a blue wire on the controller called "auto meter" that isnt connected to anything or is there another wire I should look for?

Last edited by detrailers on Oct 20 2019 6:58pm, edited 3 times in total.

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detrailers   10 W

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Re: What Wire to Controller for Key Switch in Throttle

Post by detrailers » Oct 20 2019 6:54pm

Bump, changed title

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TommyCat   10 kW

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Re: What Wire at Controller for Key Switch in Throttle

Post by TommyCat » Oct 21 2019 9:19am

Hi detrailers,

I suspect you have more than the 4 wires you mention. If so, what colors and what are they connected to? Does your throttle have a voltage display also? What is very important is to keep the low voltage side (hall sensor wiring) separate from the high voltage side (battery voltage for the display, controller activation thru key switch) Although the ground is shared by both display and hall sensor.

Once sorted for sure on your throttle wiring. Typically you switch your battery power wire (Large RED wire VB+)to your controller's Key Lock, Power Lock, or Ignition Lock wire. (Often a smaller RED or Orange wire) Sometimes these will both be provided to the same connector.
I think it unlikely that the "auto meter" is the one. Sounds like it could be for speed indication.

There are several ways to get the job done of disabling with a key switch... more details on your equipment would result in more accurate suggestions. :)

Regards,
T.C.

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detrailers   10 W

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Re: What Wire at Controller for Key Switch in Throttle

Post by detrailers » Oct 21 2019 9:28am

All the other wires are where they should be on the controller. I'll look for the wires you mentioned.. sure would be nice to have the key work

Thanks

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detrailers   10 W

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Re: What Wire at Controller for Key Switch in Throttle

Post by detrailers » Oct 21 2019 12:43pm

I found my wiring diagram, Looks like there is a lead for electronic lock but it's 3 wires how would I wire this up

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TommyCat   10 kW

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Re: What Wire at Controller for Key Switch in Throttle

Post by TommyCat » Oct 21 2019 4:27pm

With nothing else connected to the key switch wiring :warn:

From the "power and electric lock" connector. The large RED wire would connect to one side of the key switch. (power leg) And the smaller Orange wire would connect to the other side of the key switch. (switched leg) Removing the jumper that must be between them at present for current operation...

With the Large RED and BLACK wires continuing on to the battery connector.

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detrailers   10 W

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Re: What Wire at Controller for Key Switch in Throttle

Post by detrailers » Oct 21 2019 6:12pm

Yes I did see a jumper on that terminal on the controller

So I have blue, yellow, red, white and black currently connected now
(Throttle)Black to (controller) black
(Throttle) Red to (controller) red
(Throttle) green to (controller) white
(Throttle) yellow to red main power line
(Throttle) blue not connected to anything

How should I wire it?

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detrailers   10 W

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Re: What Wire at Controller for Key Switch in Throttle

Post by detrailers » Oct 21 2019 6:15pm

^^^sorry, throttle white to controller green I meant

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TommyCat   10 kW

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Re: What Wire at Controller for Key Switch in Throttle

Post by TommyCat » Oct 21 2019 6:51pm

detrailers wrote: ↑

Oct 21 2019 6:15pm

^^^sorry, throttle white to controller green I meant

According to your controller's wiring picture, it would seem you where right the first time...

So if the RED main power line is connected to the throttle's Yellow wire. (switch's power in leg)
The throttle's blue wire (switch's switched leg) would connect to the small Orange wire (as mentioned in my post above) after removing the jumper.

The controller needs battery + power at the orange wire to operate.

From your descriptions, this is what I believe you to have... If not, hold up. :?

Image

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detrailers   10 W

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Re: What Wire at Controller for Key Switch in Throttle

Post by detrailers » Oct 21 2019 7:16pm

Yes that is it

TommyCat wrote: ↑

Oct 21 2019 6:51pm

detrailers wrote: ↑

Oct 21 2019 6:15pm

^^^sorry, throttle white to controller green I meant

According to your controller's wiring picture, it would seem you where right the first time...

So if the RED main power line is connected to the throttle's Yellow wire. (switch's power in leg)
The throttle's blue wire (switch's switched leg) would connect to the small Orange wire (as mentioned in my post above) after removing the jumper.

The controller needs battery + power at the orange wire to operate.

From your descriptions, this is what I believe you to have... If not, hold up. :?

Image

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detrailers   10 W

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Re: What Wire at Controller for Key Switch in Throttle

Post by detrailers » Oct 21 2019 9:34pm

That was it! TY Tommy

More simple than we figured the orange wire was wired to the red main wire, just clipped that and wired it to the blue and key works perfect now!

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TommyCat   10 kW

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Re: What Wire at Controller for Key Switch in Throttle

Post by TommyCat » Oct 22 2019 8:45am

Great news! Glad you got it worked out. :thumb:

Cheers! :D

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Re: What Wire at Controller for Key Switch in Throttle

Post by ItsOverRock » Dec 08 2020 8:43am

what if u don't have hall sensors for ur motor just a 3 phase bldc hub motor that's Sensorless & a sensorless/Hall-Less controller... is there anyway to hook up that blue little low-voltage wire turn on and off the scooter? I got a new throttle for my scooter that has 5 wires, blk, green, red, yellow & blue & I have it all hooked up without blue but I kno the yellow is on my battery+ & the blue is Def a switch leg from the yellow when I turn the key. However they r all like 16 or 18 Guage & cannot have amp from scooter passing thru them like that or will burn up in a second. Pls help thank u!!

Last edited by ItsOverRock on Dec 18 2020 12:08am, edited 2 times in total.


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TommyCat   10 kW

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Re: What Wire at Controller for Key Switch in Throttle

Post by TommyCat » Dec 08 2020 2:31pm

Hi ItsOverRock,

If you could provide links to your new throttle, and present controller. More accurate suggestions could be made.

You are correct by not allowing more than say 2 amps to flow thru a typical throttle switch and wiring.

Two important questions...
Does your new throttle have a voltage display? Does your controller have a "Key Lock, Power Lock, or Ignition Lock wire."?

I don't think that having a sensored verses and un-sensored controller makes a difference...

Regards,
T.C.

See my completed Magic Pie V5 rear hub E-Bike build Here!


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Re: What Wire at Controller for Key Switch in Throttle

Post by ItsOverRock » Dec 18 2020 12:15am

Hey TC my throttle is the exact same wires that are in the pictures from above it has the fault display with a key ignition thumb throttle make however it is a Straight 3 phase sensorless bldc motor controller. Has a brake connection, throttle input, & forward/reverse direction connection. The board has its own powered 5V connection after the battery is connected to it too and that's it...no extras like key ignition or alarm etc. Or anything like ur normal motor controllers. I'll post the pics of both.

Attachments
C8153402-FBD3-4F23-87D4-FB90BE2B9C1E.jpeg
Throtte
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0A5376DB-EBED-43C6-BC89-C659CE7F3835.png
Hall-Less/Sensorless Controller
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5A93BAAA-CFFD-43DC-AEF7-DC801248E184.png
I have 2 controllers, 1 for each hub motor
5A93BAAA-CFFD-43DC-AEF7-DC801248E184.png (232.02 KiB) Viewed 7515 times

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TommyCat   10 kW

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Re: What Wire at Controller for Key Switch in Throttle

Post by TommyCat » Dec 18 2020 5:18pm

Thanks for providing your component information. Always helpful to see what one is working on. :D

Caution: With the upcoming suggestions, always keep in mind to keep the positive high voltage battery pack voltage (Yellow wire) separate from the low voltage 5vdc regulated supply (Red wire) and output (Green wire) of the throttle's hall sensor. The ground of the hall sensor and the volt meter are shared. (Black wire)

Two possibilities come to mind. A "passive" type control. Or a more "total" control wiring. Both would use the volt meter on your new throttle.

Passive: I would re-wire the throttle internally so that the high voltage positive wiring only goes to the voltage meter directly, having removed it from having anything to do with the key switch. Then use the key switch to make or break the 5vdc incoming voltage supply (Red wire) to the hall sensor.
This would bring on the voltage meter immediately after the battery is plugged in. And only allow operational control of the throttle
when the key is in the "on" position.

Pros: No extra parts or extra wire runs needed.
Cons: Internal throttle wiring changes which may require soldering. No disabling of power to controller with possible parasitic drain on battery if left plugged in?

A more total approach would be to use a control relay connected into in the battery to controller wiring. With it being energized by the key switch @ battery voltage.
A solid state relay is what I would recommend.
Your systems voltage and controller's maximum current use would be necessary to size.
This is the one I use on my system. But I also use the provided push button lighted switch. See it being used in my build log, accessed thru the link in my signature below. https://lunacycle.com/remote-on-off-solid-state-switch/
You would be able to use a SSR like this, but would have to run an extra wire to your throttle. (6 wire cable)

I use both methods on my system.

I tried to describe a couple possibilities that may be of interest to you best I could. If I've not been perfectly clear, you have questions or other ideas and need more information, please let me know.

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Re: What Wire at Controller for Key Switch in Throttle

Post by ItsOverRock » Dec 31 2020 12:48am

Thanks for the options!! So how would the relay get wired with my existing wires & then u said adding 1? I gotta check to see how much voltage is getting to the blue wire sw leg when I turn the key & have the yellow just spliced to the battery feed on the switch I have installed already... because I currently just have a 30 amp Switch that turns power on to the whole system & the key just turns on the volt display


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TommyCat   10 kW

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Re: What Wire at Controller for Key Switch in Throttle

Post by TommyCat » Dec 31 2020 10:03am

ItsOverRock wrote: ↑

Dec 31 2020 12:48am

So how would the relay get wired with my existing wires & then u said adding 1?

You would have to replace the existing 5 conductor wiring cable of your new throttle with a 6 conductor. (OEM look)
Or just add an extra stray wire... (bit mousy, but functional)

I've been wanting to draw up a few wiring diagrams. Probably the easiest, most accurate way to way to get the particulars across.
Will be working on it.

EDIT: This is one type of relay addition that I ran across. (not my drawing) May give you a better idea.

Image

ItsOverRock wrote: ↑

Dec 31 2020 12:48am

I gotta check to see how much voltage is getting to the blue wire sw leg when I turn the key & have the yellow just spliced to the battery feed on the switch I have installed already...

You should find the exact same voltage on the BLUE wire as you do on the incoming YELLOW feed wire with the key turned "on". As it is just a switch... IE: set of contacts.

What IS your systems nominal voltage and Maximum required amperage draw? I don't think your using a display, but if so, what model? (It may be easier to switch it's low current, high voltage, power on wiring...)

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Re: What Wire at Controller for Key Switch in Throttle

Post by ItsOverRock » Dec 31 2020 10:23pm

Holy crap I have that exact relay already pre-wired that came with a set of lights for the scooter I bought...So I'm assuming if I follow that wiring diagram you have there with the JD 1912 relay I'll be all set? I don't have a display at the moment but I do want to get some sort of mile per hour display at some point... yeah that blue 26 gauge wire definitely needs to be powered on the low-voltage side already fried at once by accident having it on the high-voltage side Lol


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Re: What Wire at Controller for Key Switch in Throttle

Post by TommyCat » Jan 01 2021 9:26am

ItsOverRock wrote: ↑

Dec 31 2020 10:23pm

So I'm assuming if I follow that wiring diagram you have there with the JD 1912 relay I'll be all set?

If your running a 12 volt battery system that draws under 40 amps, you should be good to go.

ItsOverRock wrote: ↑

Dec 31 2020 10:23pm

... yeah that blue 26 gauge wire definitely needs to be powered on the low-voltage side already fried at once by accident having it on the high-voltage side Lol

Technically the BLUE wire still is on the high voltage side. If you consider full battery voltage HIGH (12 volts in this case) and controller regulated power (5vdc) LOW ...
What does change is the amount of current (amperage) that will flow thru your throttle harness wiring and key switch. To just the small amount that is required to operate that relay, which looks to be around 150 mA. (.15 amps) Which would be easily handled. :wink:

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Re: What Wire at Controller for Key Switch in Throttle

Post by ItsOverRock » Jan 10 2021 8:18am

My electric scooter is on a 36volt system & I'm prob gonna be upgrading it to a 48Volt or 52Volt battery soon. My Controllers r a multi voltage 5v-70volt. My lights I run off a separate 12volt battery system that I have separately switched...so the blue key wire will have 42+volts running thru it when I turn the key on. I have the yellow wire on the Line side of a switch right now so no amperage goes thru it. My feed for the 2 controllers r on the Load side of the switch & my 2 batteries that r wired in parallel have a total of 10.4AH.


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Re: What Wire at Controller for Key Switch in Throttle

Post by TommyCat » Jan 10 2021 12:51pm

ItsOverRock wrote: ↑

Jan 10 2021 8:18am

My feed for the 2 controllers r on the Load side of the switch & my 2 batteries that r wired in parallel have a total of 10.4AH.

10.4 AH or amp hours to me is a value of capacity. To properly size a control relay, I need to know the total draw in amperage from your batteries, (current thru the relay contacts) or at least the maximum continuous current draw available thru your battery's BMS.

And secondly, do you want the 12 volt lighting system interconnected (dependent, independent, or doesn't matter) with the two controller's power on system?

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